Logo primary
Logo secondary
John Lee 's Profile
John Lee
Details
Joined:
26/06/2015
Last Updated:
05/11/2015
Location:
Lawrence, KS, United States
Climate Zone:
Cold Temperate
Gender:
Male
Web site:
www.facebook.com/IntelligentRebellion2015





My Projects

(projects i'm involved in)


Projects

(projects i'm following)

Permaculture Sustainable Future Midwest Permaculture Ann Cantelow's Home Cedar House Inn Demonstration Project Abundant Permaculture Farm Central Rocky Mountain Permaculture Institute Native Plant Demonstration Garden Mountain Roots Community Gardens Project Whole Systems Design Permaculture Trade Association Nashville Permaculture Research Institute Simon's house, 'Bali Fresh' Sumber Sari Eco Villas Fernglade Farm Permangola The Dirt Rich School PRI Tap o' Noth Farm, Aberdeenshire, Scotland VAIHUTI FRESH FARM The Farm Ecovillage Training Center Legacy Polycultures Earth Harmony Sustainability Seminar URBAN HOMESTEAD GRANTS
Followers
Allie Gill Crystal  Niedzwiadek Jehan de Maille Michael Tiffe Nathan Dow Sarah Livingston
Following
A. MARK LIIV Alan Enzo Amanda Lindahl Amanda Macon AmenZen Rrague Andrew Mateskon Ann Cantelow Ben Falk Bill Wilson Brian Conner Cathy Alcorn Christopher Nesbitt Craig Miller David Bolt David Braden Deanna Howe Dr. Murat ONUK Eliza Anne H. Lord Elizabeth Sweet Eric Shortridge Fred Tanner Geoff Lawton James Reid Janell Kapoor Jehan de Maille Justin Rhodes Lee Recca Mark Shepard Max Segovia Michael S Almon Mike Wood Mycenay Plyler Nathan Dow Nigel Green Norman van't Hoff Pascal Depienne Richard Larson Stephen Moring Steven Saint-Thomas Sunshine Hampton Valerie Herrmann Zev Friedman

Back to John Lee's profile

Native - a (potentially) Problematic Human Concept?

Posted by John Lee about 9 years ago

   The entire modern world seems to be collapsing around us.  Permaculture is meant to guide us closer to understanding the means to reverse negatively-impactful patterns and trends we have developed as a human society.  It re-routes certain neural pathways in our brains when we finally recognize our crooked human perceptions of ourselves, our brethren Earth entities, and our places in this world.

   With permaculture in tow, we retract from consumerism and reduce wastes we didn't even realize we had been producing, and it really keeps going as far as we want to take it.  There are still no permaculture heads of state - apparently there is a permaculture sub-committee or some token field membership in the United Nations, but I can't say my faith is strong in UN diplomacy leading to action on such a yet fringe subject. 

   The point from which I've strayed is that whether it be in discussing people, animals, plants, mycoflora, or bacteria and diseases, taking a conservation point of view often conflicts with what permaculture and nature would otherwise teach anyone quite obviously if they would allow themselves to be open to the lesson:

   "Native" defines a subject via an arbitrary timeline, excluding all lifeforms to come thereafter as noxious, invasive, and perhaps most negative and conflict-causing of all is the term "non-native."  Plants, insects, predators, people, and all manner of natural beauty are the cause of conflict at all levels across the globe because of our global inability to sacrifice this cherished human concept of Native VS. (insert negative descriptive word about anything else).  It is just as xenophobic as genocide or any other senseless death to pull a "non-native" weed without understanding that weed's purpose and true value.

   Some humans want to save native species, where they historically know them to exist...  but they're cool with planting hybrid chestnuts and honestly anything other than what can be found growing within walking distance of their site or region?  Or perhaps they forgo the chestnuts but within the range of plants found in their region, native plant species lists must be checked to ensure they don't help spread invasive, non-natives?  No, friends, this is not the way.  Rather it be said one cannot have it both ways, abiding by a xenophobia-perpetuating, "Native VS. ___" ideology but also researching as a mindful permaculturalist things might be living on one's landscape to uncover for oneself their true value.  They are entirely different approaches to co-habiting this planet with other living things.

   We are all connected, and permaculture teaches us that all living things have value.  Good luck with the philosophical brainstorm ahead for all you conservationists turned permaculturalist.  It has not been easy adjusting my rationalizations for action, but dissolving my conception of subjects being native was a huge help personally.  I hope it has been obvious throughout this entry that I am not arguing conservation organizations battling against companies drilling in our watersheds and headwaters or the bastards trying to quarry along the last main Alaskan salmon runs.  Strictly, my topic concerns the conflict surrounding the concept of being native or not.

"Noone can change the winds, but one can always adjust the sails."  

   That, or something to that effect, old seamen slogan is funny to dissect as a permaculturalist -- we can alter winds to a certain degree on our site, but I think you all understand the sentiment.  Nature is bigger than us and working on an indefinite, living timeline and prerogative of it's own, not our puny human time-scales or moral conceptions of what does or doesn't belong.  

Comments (42)

You must be logged in to comment.

Nathan Dow
Nathan Dow : I saw your post on facebook, which led me to comment.

While it is true that many non-native plants introduced by human intervention have benefits to humans and the landscape, we have to keep in mind the entire spectrum of advantages and disadvantages that come along with it.

For example, Katharine Gehron and Jenna Webster, two very knowledgeable sustainable landscape designers describe several studies that show a clear negative effect on the environment.

In one study, native plants provided up to 4x the biomass for feeding insects, simply because the insects mouth parts were unable to process the alien plants. Then it moves up the food chain, as less plant food for bugs means less bugs, and less bugs provide less food for birds.

Non-native plants also lack the natural balance when growing with a cluster of other plants that evolved together. This makes them more likely to choke out less-aggressive native species.

I'm not saying that you are "wrong," but we definitely have to carefully consider which plants to grow to make sure we aren't doing more harm than good. I know from personal experience how quickly some plants, commonly recommended by the permaculture community (e.g. wisteria), will grow out of control and suffocate other more desirable plants/trees. Yes, it fixes nitrogen but it is also an aggressive climber/spreader and the roots are ridiculously hard to remove, especially older growth.

Here is the address of the page I am referring to: http://nativeplantwildlifegarden.com/invasive-plants-in-permaculture/

Good luck with your permaculture projects.
Posted about 9 years ago

Report Nathan Dow on Native - a (potentially) Problematic Human Concept?

Reason:

or cancel

John Lee
John Lee : Thanks for the thoughtful comment, Nathan! The article you linked looks like a good long read, so it'll take me a bit but I see Ben Falk's name in the beginning paragraph and I know what he thinks of his goldenrod :)

To be clear, I do think native plants are important and I'm not throwing out the notion that we should consider or prefer them in plantings. What bothers me are the mindsets where folks blindly discourage or wage war upon outside influence, which is by definition xenophobia and not exactly a road most of us permies would choose in life.

We all have and will continue to gain experience with what works well in each landscape and bioregion we work, but the natural balance of which you speak cannot be achieved by those striving to keep things exactly the way they are or have historically been. Nature evolves and fluxes in rhythms few truly recognize.
Posted about 9 years ago

Report John Lee on Native - a (potentially) Problematic Human Concept?

Reason:

or cancel

Tom Hiddleston
Tom Hiddleston : Very good article, I have learned many useful and interesting things from the information you shared. krunker
Posted about 2 years ago

Report Tom Hiddleston on Native - a (potentially) Problematic Human Concept?

Reason:

or cancel

Victor Patrick
Victor Patrick : I am genuinely thankful to the holder of this web page who has shared this wonderful paragraph at at this place bitlife
Posted about 1 year ago

Report Victor Patrick on Native - a (potentially) Problematic Human Concept?

Reason:

or cancel

rikibac593 rikibac593
rikibac593 rikibac593 : I really enjoyed reading this post, big fan. Kee seo service london
Posted 11 months ago

Report rikibac593 rikibac593 on Native - a (potentially) Problematic Human Concept?

Reason:

or cancel

ow enn
ow enn : I definitely wanted to post a simple remark in order to thank you for all the unique tips and tricks you are giving out on this website. My incredibly long internet search has finally been recognized with extremely good points to go over with my company. I ‘d say that we readers are very blessed to exist in a superb site with so many awesome people with good advice. I feel pretty happy to have come across your entire website and look forward to tons of more brilliant moments reading here. Thanks a lot once more for everything. 비타임도메인
Posted 11 months ago

Report ow enn on Native - a (potentially) Problematic Human Concept?

Reason:

or cancel

Andyy yyyy
Andyy yyyy : Yes i am totally agreed with this article and i just want say that this article is very nice and very informative article.I will make sure to be reading your blog more. You made a good point but I can't help but wonder, what about the other side?  사설토토
Posted 11 months ago

Report Andyy yyyy on Native - a (potentially) Problematic Human Concept?

Reason:

or cancel

Andyy yyyy
Andyy yyyy : https://www.nashvillehotrecord.com I have browsed maximum of your posts. This put up is probably wherein i have been given the maximum. That is a super website, thank you for sharing. There may be no doubt i'd sincerely price it after i read what the idea about this article is. You probable did a nice . You have got done a notable manner with you net web site
Posted 11 months ago

Report Andyy yyyy on Native - a (potentially) Problematic Human Concept?

Reason:

or cancel

Andyy yyyy
Andyy yyyy : I have browsed maximum of your posts. This put up is probably wherein i have been given the maximum. That is a super website, thank you for sharing. There may be no doubt i'd sincerely price it after i read what the idea about this article is. You probable did a nice . You have got done a notable manner with you net web site 토토사이트
Posted 11 months ago

Report Andyy yyyy on Native - a (potentially) Problematic Human Concept?

Reason:

or cancel

ow enn
ow enn : first-rate facts, precious and amazing layout, as percentage suitable stuff with suitable thoughts and thoughts, plenty of incredible statistics and inspiration, each of which i want, way to provide this type of useful facts here. I used to be genuinely surfing through the net looking for a few information and got here throughout your weblog. I’m impressed through the records which you have in this blog. It suggests how well you recognize this problem. Bookmarked this web web page, will come lower back for extra. Truly exceptional and exciting put up. I used to be searching out this kind of statistics and loved reading this one. Hold posting. Thank you for sharing. 온라인카지노쿠폰
Posted 11 months ago

Report ow enn on Native - a (potentially) Problematic Human Concept?

Reason:

or cancel

ow enn
ow enn : Good to become visiting your weblog again, it has been months for me. Nicely this article that i've been waited for so long. I will need this post to total my assignment in the college, and it has exact same topic together with your write-up. Thanks, good share.  메이저사이트목록
Posted 11 months ago

Report ow enn on Native - a (potentially) Problematic Human Concept?

Reason:

or cancel

ow enn
ow enn : first-rate facts, precious and amazing layout, as percentage suitable stuff with suitable thoughts and thoughts, plenty of incredible statistics and inspiration, each of which i want, way to provide this type of useful facts here. I used to be genuinely surfing through the net looking for a few information and got here throughout your weblog. I’m impressed through the records which you have in this blog. It suggests how well you recognize this problem. Bookmarked this web web page, will come lower back for extra. Truly exceptional and exciting put up. I used to be searching out this kind of statistics and loved reading this one. Hold posting. Thank you for sharing. 메이저놀이터
Posted 11 months ago

Report ow enn on Native - a (potentially) Problematic Human Concept?

Reason:

or cancel

Andyy yyyy
Andyy yyyy : Interesting topic for a blog. I was searching the internet for fun and found your website. Great post. Thanks for sharing your knowledge! It's great to see that some people still put effort into maintaining their website. I'll check back soon.  안전보증업체
Posted 11 months ago

Report Andyy yyyy on Native - a (potentially) Problematic Human Concept?

Reason:

or cancel

ow enn
ow enn : brilliant inteed to check out new belongings you positioned up. This is in reality an sensible and first-class data for all. Thank you for sharing this to us and extra strength 먹휴고
Posted 11 months ago

Report ow enn on Native - a (potentially) Problematic Human Concept?

Reason:

or cancel

Andyy yyyy
Andyy yyyy : Yes i am totally agreed with this article and i just want say that this article is very nice and very informative article.I will make sure to be reading your blog more. You made a good point but I can't help but wonder, what about the other side?  오래된토토사이트주소
Posted 11 months ago

Report Andyy yyyy on Native - a (potentially) Problematic Human Concept?

Reason:

or cancel

Andyy yyyy
Andyy yyyy : bulous post, you have denoted out some fantastic points, I likewise think this s a very wonderful website. I will visit again for more quality contents and also, recommend this site to all. Thanks. บาคาร่าออนไลน์ 먹튀사이트신고
Posted 11 months ago

Report Andyy yyyy on Native - a (potentially) Problematic Human Concept?

Reason:

or cancel

ow enn
ow enn : i'm surely inspired that there may be so much facts approximately this problem that have been uncovered and also you’ve done your first-rate, with so much magnificence.sides decipher Thank you 먹튀검증업체
Posted 11 months ago

Report ow enn on Native - a (potentially) Problematic Human Concept?

Reason:

or cancel

ow enn
ow enn : Howdy! This post could not be written much better! Reading through this post reminds me of my previous roommate! He always kept talking about this. 먹튀사이트주소
Posted 11 months ago

Report ow enn on Native - a (potentially) Problematic Human Concept?

Reason:

or cancel

ow enn
ow enn : I have read some excellent stuff here. Certainly price bookmarking for revisiting. I surprise how a lot attempt you place to create this type of great informative web site.  엔트리파워볼
Posted 11 months ago

Report ow enn on Native - a (potentially) Problematic Human Concept?

Reason:

or cancel

ow enn
ow enn : Howdy! This post could not be written much better! Reading through this post reminds me of my previous roommate! He always kept talking about this. 토토브라더
Posted 11 months ago

Report ow enn on Native - a (potentially) Problematic Human Concept?

Reason:

or cancel

ow enn
ow enn : You make so many great points here that I read your article a couple of times. Your views are in accordance with my own for the most part. This is great content for your readers  안전놀이터
Posted 11 months ago

Report ow enn on Native - a (potentially) Problematic Human Concept?

Reason:

or cancel

ow enn
ow enn : It was a great opportunity to visit this kind of site and I am delighted. Thank you so much for giving us this opportunity.  라이브카지노역사
Posted 11 months ago

Report ow enn on Native - a (potentially) Problematic Human Concept?

Reason:

or cancel

ow enn
ow enn : Very complete and informative explanation. Thank you for this great post. I love your work. 생활바카라노하우
Posted 11 months ago

Report ow enn on Native - a (potentially) Problematic Human Concept?

Reason:

or cancel

ow enn
ow enn : i in my opinion use them my preferred minis for almost the entirety. From time to time i without a doubt draw wow gold online 먹튀사이트목록
Posted 11 months ago

Report ow enn on Native - a (potentially) Problematic Human Concept?

Reason:

or cancel

ow enn
ow enn : Very complete and informative explanation. Thank you for this great post. I love your work. บาคาร่าออนไลน์
Posted 11 months ago

Report ow enn on Native - a (potentially) Problematic Human Concept?

Reason:

or cancel

ow enn
ow enn : I am very enjoyed for this blog. Its an informative topic. It help me very much to solve some problems. Its opportunity are so fantastic and working style so speedy.  안전놀이터
Posted 11 months ago

Report ow enn on Native - a (potentially) Problematic Human Concept?

Reason:

or cancel

ow enn
ow enn : I definitely wanted to post a simple remark in order to thank you for all the unique tips and tricks you are giving out on this website. My incredibly long internet search has finally been recognized with extremely good points to go over with my company. I ‘d say that we readers are very blessed to exist in a superb site with so many awesome people with good advice. I feel pretty happy to have come across your entire website and look forward to tons of more brilliant moments reading here. Thanks a lot once more for everything. 양방배팅 사이트
Posted 11 months ago

Report ow enn on Native - a (potentially) Problematic Human Concept?

Reason:

or cancel

ow enn
ow enn : first-rate facts, precious and amazing layout, as percentage suitable stuff with suitable thoughts and thoughts, plenty of incredible statistics and inspiration, each of which i want, way to provide this type of useful facts here. I used to be genuinely surfing through the net looking for a few information and got here throughout your weblog. I’m impressed through the records which you have in this blog. It suggests how well you recognize this problem. Bookmarked this web web page, will come lower back for extra. Truly exceptional and exciting put up. I used to be searching out this kind of statistics and loved reading this one. Hold posting. Thank you for sharing. 토토검증사이트
Posted 11 months ago

Report ow enn on Native - a (potentially) Problematic Human Concept?

Reason:

or cancel

ow enn
ow enn : Good to become visiting your weblog again, it has been months for me. Nicely this article that i've been waited for so long. I will need this post to total my assignment in the college, and it has exact same topic together with your write-up. Thanks, good share.  동행복권로또
Posted 11 months ago

Report ow enn on Native - a (potentially) Problematic Human Concept?

Reason:

or cancel

ow enn
ow enn : first-rate facts, precious and amazing layout, as percentage suitable stuff with suitable thoughts and thoughts, plenty of incredible statistics and inspiration, each of which i want, way to provide this type of useful facts here. I used to be genuinely surfing through the net looking for a few information and got here throughout your weblog. I’m impressed through the records which you have in this blog. It suggests how well you recognize this problem. Bookmarked this web web page, will come lower back for extra. Truly exceptional and exciting put up. I used to be searching out this kind of statistics and loved reading this one. Hold posting. Thank you for sharing. 검증사이트
Posted 11 months ago

Report ow enn on Native - a (potentially) Problematic Human Concept?

Reason:

or cancel

ow enn
ow enn : brilliant inteed to check out new belongings you positioned up. This is in reality an sensible and first-class data for all. Thank you for sharing this to us and extra strength 토토사이트추천
Posted 11 months ago

Report ow enn on Native - a (potentially) Problematic Human Concept?

Reason:

or cancel

ow enn
ow enn : i'm surely inspired that there may be so much facts approximately this problem that have been uncovered and also you’ve done your first-rate, with so much magnificence.sides decipher Thank you 먹튀검증사이트
Posted 11 months ago

Report ow enn on Native - a (potentially) Problematic Human Concept?

Reason:

or cancel

ow enn
ow enn : Howdy! This post could not be written much better! Reading through this post reminds me of my previous roommate! He always kept talking about this. 메이저사이트추천
Posted 11 months ago

Report ow enn on Native - a (potentially) Problematic Human Concept?

Reason:

or cancel

ow enn
ow enn : I have read some excellent stuff here. Certainly price bookmarking for revisiting. I surprise how a lot attempt you place to create this type of great informative web site.  온라인카지노
Posted 11 months ago

Report ow enn on Native - a (potentially) Problematic Human Concept?

Reason:

or cancel

ow enn
ow enn : Howdy! This post could not be written much better! Reading through this post reminds me of my previous roommate! He always kept talking about this. 먹튀신고
Posted 11 months ago

Report ow enn on Native - a (potentially) Problematic Human Concept?

Reason:

or cancel

ow enn
ow enn : You make so many great points here that I read your article a couple of times. Your views are in accordance with my own for the most part. This is great content for your readers  먹튀검증사이트
Posted 11 months ago

Report ow enn on Native - a (potentially) Problematic Human Concept?

Reason:

or cancel

ow enn
ow enn : I recently came across your blog and have been reading along. I thought I would leave my first comment. I don't know what to say except that I have enjoyed reading. Nice blog. I will keep visiting this blog very often.  사설토토사이트
Posted 11 months ago

Report ow enn on Native - a (potentially) Problematic Human Concept?

Reason:

or cancel

ow enn
ow enn : You have done a great job on this article. Very accurate and qualitative. We made it easy to read and understand. You have a real talent for writing. Thank you so much Safe Playground 안전공원주소
Posted 11 months ago

Report ow enn on Native - a (potentially) Problematic Human Concept?

Reason:

or cancel

ow enn
ow enn : If more people that write articles really concerned themselves with writing great content like you, more readers would be interested in their writings. Thank you for caring about your content.  사설토토먹튀
Posted 11 months ago

Report ow enn on Native - a (potentially) Problematic Human Concept?

Reason:

or cancel

ow enn
ow enn : You have done a great job on this article. Very accurate and qualitative. We made it easy to read and understand. You have a real talent for writing. Thank you so much Safe Playground 먹튀타운
Posted 11 months ago

Report ow enn on Native - a (potentially) Problematic Human Concept?

Reason:

or cancel

ow enn
ow enn : Regular visits listed here are the easiest way to assess your energy, so visit our website every day and search for new and interesting information. Many thanks  먹튀신고
Posted 11 months ago

Report ow enn on Native - a (potentially) Problematic Human Concept?

Reason:

or cancel

totoworld totoworld
totoworld totoworld : I recently came across your blog and have been reading along. I thought I would leave my first comment. I don't know what to say except that I have enjoyed reading. Nice blog. I will keep visiting this blog very often. 토토사이트
Posted 4 months ago

Report totoworld totoworld on Native - a (potentially) Problematic Human Concept?

Reason:

or cancel

My Badges
Consultant Pdc teacher
My Permaculture Qualifications
Pri verified
Geoff Lawton
Type: Geoff Lawton Online PDC
Teacher: Geoff Lawton
Location: Online
Date: Feb 2015
Other course verified
Geoff Lawton
Type: Geoff Lawton Online Earthworks
Teacher: Geoff Lawton
Location: Online
Date: Feb 2015
Other course verified
Geoff Lawton
Type: Geoff Lawton Reading the Landscape
Teacher: Geoff Lawton
Location: Online
Date: Feb 2015
Other course unverified
Regenerative Agriculture Workshop
Type: Other
Teacher: Mark Shepard
Location: Sylvan Dale Guest Ranch, Loveland, CO
Date: Jan 2016
0 PDC Graduates (list)
0 PRI PDC Graduates (list)
0 Other Course Graduates (list)
have acknowledged being taught by John Lee
0 have not yet been verified (list)
Climate Zones
John Lee has permaculture experience in:
Cold Temperate
Cool Temperate
Semi Arid
Steppe

Report John Lee

Reason:

or cancel

Hide John Lee

Reason:

or cancel

Hide Native - a (potentially) Problematic Human Concept?

Reason:

or cancel

Report Native - a (potentially) Problematic Human Concept?

Reason:

or cancel